Islam & Secularism

2030_17_amiza wrote:

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:
from the meaning of the secularism itself, from the Webster dictionary : "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

so, we cant separate ibadah from our profession..we can apply the concept of Islam when we are doing something..

for example, if we want to make a building, or shopping mall, we need to consider all the vistor..in Malaysia, theres a lot of people with different religions..so, we need to give the best service and facilities for them.. so, it should have a comfortable musolla which can enable muslims to pray there peacefully, seperate the halal food court especially for muslim..and not forgotten the non-halal food for non-muslim..

so i think theres no reason to separate ibadah in our profession..

2030_17_sajed wrote:
We shouldn't serve haram food at all. Period. Even if non-Muslims would be dining, they are not forbidden from eating our halal food in their religion. What we serve must still remain halal and if they want to eat pork or drink alcohol, then they'll just have to find another place. It is wrong to serve food that you KNOW is harmful to humans, even if the victim doesn't believe/care.

i agreed with 2030_17_sajed, we shouldn't serve haram food, but what if the non-muslim raise the guestion about consumer's rights?? their rights in the country?? well, i mean, you're talking about halal and non-halal food...

They have the right to eat their own food but they can't force restaurants or food courts into serving them. It's like complaining that KFC doesn't serve beef, which is ridiculous. Even if there's no restaurant in the entire country that doesn't serve pork, that's not our problem. We're not obligated to make sure they get to eat exactly what they want to eat.

On problem I do see is that, we have to prevent them from consuming the haram food in public. Now THAT is something I can imagine them to complain about.

(sorry, my q is kinda 'deviated' from our topics...)

Heh, that's better than having no discussion whatsoever.

From my point of view, Muslim should not separate his worldly matter from religion. There are many ways to do Ibadah to Allah. In fact, Allah did not confined human being to do Solat, Sawm, Hajj and so on in order to get the reward from Allah. Let me give the very simple example. Gain knowledge is seems to be nothing to do with Ibadah. But, don't forget. Study is also one of the door of jihad. So, while study, we also actually doing an Ibadah towards Allah.

If we separate the Ibadah and our worldly affairs, it is afraid that, what we are doing may not be inline with the Syariah. So, it is better for us to do our professions and our Ibadah together. Wallahualam.

first of all, as muslims we should never separate 'ibadah from other professions,or we going to become seculars and we going to lose lots of values of islam.
Allah said:" اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم وأتممت عليكم نعمتى ورضيت لكم الإسلام دينا "
we can't change any thing that we've been ordered to do from Allah or we are going to be unbelievers.Allah has asked us to explain to the unbelievers not to make them muslims and if they don't Convinced and don't believe Allah said:{ ليس عليك هداهم ولكن الله يهدي من يشاء وما تنفقوا من خير فلأنفسكم وما تنفقون إلا ابتغاء وجه الله وما تنفقوا من خير يوف إليكم وأنتم لا تظلمون } .
I think the simple solution of this problem is to clarify the islam to all people in the world,and we should send many people(الدعاة) to all countries to teach them the islam and the differences between the muslims and terrorists and explain to them that the terrorists are not muslims.Then,we can make a good picture of islam to all people.

salam...

dude, we are living in a multiracial country...we need concern about the others...we can make all the changes, not serving the haram food, not doing all the haram things.. but it take times..it cant change drastically...if not, demonstration will happen, the war between muslim and the non muslim willl occur.. and then, the country will not in peace anymore...

ok... back to secularism..
agree with ahmad.ali... we should spread the idea the differences between Islam and terrorist..what islam do is something good and terrorist is bad..

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Without Islam, they probably would never have even considered pursuing science. Just looking at their situation makes me feel REALLY sorry for those poor people. And after the Islamic world fell, they began to take the lead on science. Once they started going so far, they became so arrogant with their knowledge that they began to eliminate religion from their lives. And they took it a step further, convincing thousands of ignorant people that science has no need for religion.

Yeah, they change the history of science, making their people the inventor and the discoverer. and WE have to learnt the lies. I hate it! we learn about lies and don't know the truth. here in Malaysia, we learn the history of human at school where human lives in caves and wear uncivilized clothes when Adam, the first human Allah created is already civilized. who created those histories? and whom are they going to fool? the Muslims? is this their so-called revelations? is that why they invent secularism? to hide the truth?

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:salam...

dude, we are living in a multiracial country...we need concern about the others...we can make all the changes, not serving the haram food, not doing all the haram things.. but it take times..it cant change drastically...if not, demonstration will happen, the war between muslim and the non muslim willl occur.. and then, the country will not in peace anymore...

ok... back to secularism..
agree with ahmad.ali... we should spread the idea the differences between Islam and terrorist..what islam do is something good and terrorist is bad..

Yeah, i do agree with you. As Malaysian, i know we need to consider other races as well. I guess that's why we have JAKIM here. to guide us about the HALAL and the NON-HALAL. now, it's up to us. we have the freedom to choose. whether to pick Allah, or to pick others. Because there're some Muslims who don't really take it serious about the halal-ness of something. they think that living here, all foods are halal because some supermarket here have the non-halal section in it. but, i think those are only for the OBVIOUS, the porks and the beers. but for other things? sometimes, we do have doubt, but our nafs always follow our wants, so all the doubts becomes halal.

Of course! please, no war. Islam is peace. and i want it the Islam way.

salam...

the concept of secularism is clear...that is practices that rejects any form of religious faith oe sipreme being..which is absolutely opposite the concept of tawhid..as we know, tawhid is realizing and maintaining of Allah's unity in all of man's actions which directly or indirectly related to Him....so, how can we separate ibadah in our lives?

if we have decision to make, we should think wisely.. we should think weither it is follow the Allah's rule or not.. a lot of Muslim nowadays forget about the rules..thats why a lot of crimes happened, the way we separate Islam maybe inappropiate or seems cruel in the eyes of others..thats why term of 'Muslim terrorist' exist..

btw, dont we have other topics to discuss??? seems like this topic is less attaractive for some people....

salam~

for my 0pini0n,the w0rd 'Islam Terrorist' is only the agenda of the WEST to show ISLAM is bad!huh
but recently,pe0ple can search for the truth exmple by surfing the internet
thus,we hv t0 strenghten 0ur faith by w0rshiping ALLAH based 0n the line of syariah because ISLAM is the religi0n ABSOLUTE truth!
back t0 the t0pic,we d0n0t hv t0 separate 'ibadah fr0m 0ther pr0fessi0ns.like aisha.tahir said,stdy is a part 0f ibadah.y we hv t0 separate them??
thus,we t0tally cann0t say secularism in islam as stated by hazrin_adzha that REJECTS any form of religious faith and worship..
tQ!

2030_17_salsabila wrote:

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Without Islam, they probably would never have even considered pursuing science. Just looking at their situation makes me feel REALLY sorry for those poor people. And after the Islamic world fell, they began to take the lead on science. Once they started going so far, they became so arrogant with their knowledge that they began to eliminate religion from their lives. And they took it a step further, convincing thousands of ignorant people that science has no need for religion.

Yeah, they change the history of science, making their people the inventor and the discoverer. and WE have to learnt the lies. I hate it! we learn about lies and don't know the truth. here in Malaysia, we learn the history of human at school where human lives in caves and wear uncivilized clothes when Adam, the first human Allah created is already civilized. who created those histories? and whom are they going to fool? the Muslims? is this their so-called revelations? is that why they invent secularism? to hide the truth?

I can feel your pain. They spread these ideas so that they can brainwash the ignorant masses. And I don't know about Malaysia, but I was taught the same things back in my young school days. Even the Muslim educational institutions are teaching those. Also, they don't actually LIE about those but they deceive the people nonetheless. They just simply avoid mentioning Muslim scholars at all, but they always try to attribute the European discoveries to their scientists. And most of their famous European scientists that everybody hears about actually used to study in Islamic universities and were deeply influenced by the works of the Muslims.

I even remember my Chemistry book talking about how Boltzmann (yeah, the same Boltzmann who made the Boltzmann constant and the Maxwell-Boltzmann curve) comitted suicide because the Christian scientists tried to shut him down, because they feared that his ideas would ruin the concept of God. And the story of what the church to Galileo is very famous and well-known.

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:salam...

dude, we are living in a multiracial country...we need concern about the others...we can make all the changes, not serving the haram food, not doing all the haram things.. but it take times..it cant change drastically...if not, demonstration will happen, the war between muslim and the non muslim willl occur.. and then, the country will not in peace anymore...

ok... back to secularism..
agree with ahmad.ali... we should spread the idea the differences between Islam and terrorist..what islam do is something good and terrorist is bad..

Yeah, i do agree with you. As Malaysian, i know we need to consider other races as well. I guess that's why we have JAKIM here. to guide us about the HALAL and the NON-HALAL. now, it's up to us. we have the freedom to choose. whether to pick Allah, or to pick others. Because there're some Muslims who don't really take it serious about the halal-ness of something. they think that living here, all foods are halal because some supermarket here have the non-halal section in it. but, i think those are only for the OBVIOUS, the porks and the beers. but for other things? sometimes, we do have doubt, but our nafs always follow our wants, so all the doubts becomes halal.

Of course! please, no war. Islam is peace. and i want it the Islam way.

Any kind of meat is haram if it is killed by some other method (like torture, etc) or if Allah's name is not mentioned at the time of slaughter. I wonder how many people there are that actually consider this before consuming meat in a restaurant.

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:
btw, dont we have other topics to discuss??? seems like this topic is less attaractive for some people....

I agree but I think the big d00d is busy organizing the midterm marks atm.

You guys really should have some confidences in what you guys are eating... dont be so doubtful.. it can be the evil job.. making u guys uncomfortable to eat.. just enjoy the meal dude.. hahahahah.... well.. if we already try our best to avoid non-halal food.. but still doubtful.. maybe we should try to eat less food.. and do more fasting... the lesser food we eat.. the lesser the possibility the "Haram" stuff go inside our body... =)

hurmmm......
yeah...u r right!!!

im wondering... are we discussion about secularism or bout the halal and non-halal food???? hahaa

hahaahahaaa...i wonder bout it too...

can u suggest new topic?

in my opinion,islam is not comfartable with secularism n it contradicts islam in many aspects.
secularism based on separating the religion(Islam) from all other worldly affair.

there is new topic has been posted....comment2...

oh.ok

Salam Alicom

it was a good discussion guys. But All what you said about secularism in theory, so how about it in practice? Can we take advantage of it in some cases? or it is pure evil?

Islam wrote:Salam Alicom

it was a good discussion guys. But All what you said about secularism in theory, so how about it in practice? Can we take advantage of it in some cases? or it is pure evil?

who is this Islam?...so mysterious...

there is a comment come up from several scholar considering that Malaysia is a secular state..
well according to the Tunku Abdul Rahman the 1st prime minister of Malaysia, he said that, 'Malaysia is not an islamic state, merely a secular state..', but lately the current prime minister made a statement in The Star mentioning that Malaysia is an islamic state..
which one is??
anyways i considered it to be neither as Malaysia still apply Shariah Laws, which shows that it is an islmic state but the hightest law of the land in Malaysia is the Federal Constitution as it doesnt really concerning any islamic matters except put a high position of islam as the official religion....

Sir

We do not need to know whether Malaysia is a secular or slamic state through their statments. There is an American proverb says: Actions speak louder than words.

Islam wrote:

2030_17_aisha.tahir wrote:

2030_17_sitiaishahaslah wrote:

Sir

...lol

We do not need to know whether Malaysia is a secular or slamic state through their statments. There is an American proverb says: Actions speak louder than words.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. What they claim to be is completely irrelevant if they do the exact opposite. With that being said, I can't really give my opinions on this question because I am very ignorant of Malaysia's situation.

btw if you don't mind me asking, which course are you from and in which section? Your username apparently doesn't mention all those details when it's supposed to.

2030_17_Sajed wrote:

Islam wrote:

2030_17_aisha.tahir wrote:

2030_17_sitiaishahaslah wrote:

Sir

...lol

We do not need to know whether Malaysia is a secular or slamic state through their statments. There is an American proverb says: Actions speak louder than words.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. What they claim to be is completely irrelevant if they do the exact opposite. With that being said, I can't really give my opinions on this question because I am very ignorant of Malaysia's situation.

btw if you don't mind me asking, which course are you from and in which section? Your username apparently doesn't mention all those details when it's supposed to.

the discussion is on the islam n secularism so if u dont mind since we are studying in Malaysia we do need to know the current issue nowadays so, the reason i mentioning the statements by The Famous Malaysians Prime ministers are that, so we can see a good example and do discussion on how to differentiate the differences on the secularism and the islamic state. our job as students of ISLAMIC WORLD VIEW CODE 2030 SECTION 17 IS TO DISCUSS AMONG EACH OTHER NOT TO CRITICIZE EACH OTHER SO TAKE IT EASY AS WE ARE NOT PERFECT LIKE PEOPLE WHO ALWAYS GIVE 'COMMENT', WE ARE ALL THE SAME.....PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!

salam.. im agree.. we need to know about the current issue..plus, we are students which need a lot of information about the current issue...

back to secularism, hurm.. honestly, im still blur~~~ but based on what i understand.. malaysia not is not secular..either islamic.. so, are we in between?? because if mlaysia is secular, why we have all the mufti, imam, Jakim, jais and others.. but were not applying syariah laws... is it because of malaysia is multiracial state which cannot apply those laws??

our job as students of ISLAMIC WORLD VIEW CODE 2030 SECTION 17 IS TO DISCUSS AMONG EACH OTHER NOT TO CRITICIZE EACH OTHER SO TAKE IT EASY AS WE ARE NOT PERFECT LIKE PEOPLE WHO ALWAYS GIVE 'COMMENT', WE ARE ALL THE SAME.....PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!

cool babe...dont take it serious...we are in the learning process...don't too emotional...and to 'others', please dont disturb the forumm...

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:salam.. im agree.. we need to know about the current issue..plus, we are students which need a lot of information about the current issue...

back to secularism, hurm.. honestly, im still blur~~~ but based on what i understand.. malaysia not is not secular..either islamic.. so, are we in between?? because if mlaysia is secular, why we have all the mufti, imam, Jakim, jais and others.. but were not applying syariah laws... is it because of malaysia is multiracial state which cannot apply those laws??

Sir, What do you mean by saying ( Are we in between)? Is there stage between secularism and Islam? If so, what do we called it?