Islam & Secularism

'Ibadah, the ultimate purpose of creation as declared in the Qur'an (51:56; 6:162-163), is a generic term for all permissible acts a Muslim performs li-wajhillah (for Allah's cause). Muslims from all walks of life are called to perform their respective duties and professions excellently, ultimately li-wajhillah so that these duties & professions may be qualified as I'badah. Thus, Islam is seen as a way of life.
On the other hand, Islam categorically condemns terrorizing innocent people, yet a few Muslims, due to one reason or another, have chosen the path of terrorism. They claim to do it li-wajhillah. Partly on this ground, some non-Muslims jump into the conclusion that Islam condones or supports terrorism.

In clearing the Muslim image and engaging in a global Da'wah, should we separate 'ibadah from other professions so that not everything a Muslim does is 'ibadah, but then we will be faced with Secularism which Islamic worldview is not comfortable with.

Or should we continue to tolerate 'Muslim terrorist' which is unfair to Islam and greater majority of Muslims.

Or what are the other alternatives do we have?

Oh snap, the Admin of this forum is actually still alive???

Indeed, Islam is not comfortable with secularism at all. Even if we were to resort to secularism, it would not help one bit in solving this problem. In fact, it would only make our situation look worse if we completely remove the Ibadah in other aspects of life. As for how to deal with this terrorism issue...

Ibadah only applies to the permissible acts done in the cause of Allah. To do something which is forbidden, even if it is done for the sake of Allah, is not part of Ibadah. It's safe to assume that the people who DO perform these despicable acts either do it because they are ignorant and they think it is part of Ibadah, OR they do it for their own malicious reasons and use the banner of Islam to justify it. In any case, we need to clarify that the actions of a Muslim are not necessarily in accordance with Islam, even if they claim otherwise. The Muslims need to realize that this is not the way we should handle this situation and that extremism is condemned in Islam. The non-Muslims should stop assuming that the actions of every Muslim is in accordance with Islam.

It's not really our fault that we get this kind of image. Every religion contains criminals, extremists, racists, etc. Even atheists can also be extremists (why make such a big deal if I kill this person? It's not such a serious problem to slaughter an animal or permanently deactivate a machine). And yet, the media chooses to highlight the activities of Muslims (or, when they focus on those from other religions, they ignore the religion itself). And they take Qur'anic Verses out of context and mislead the ignorant people. It is our responsibility to guide them back by clearing up all these misconceptions and by illustrating the proper stance that Muslims should take. This is not a problem that can be eradicated easily in a short time, but if we all put our effort into the Da'wah, then InshaAllah, the situation would slowly improve.

tl;dr - The answer to the problem is Da'wah, not secularism

Assalamualaikum..

There is no doubt that secularism contradicts Islam in every aspect. They are two different paths that never meet; choosing one means rejecting the other. Hence, whoever chooses Islam has to reject secularism.
Secularism is based on separating religion from all the affairs of this life and hence, it rules by law and regulations other than Allah's laws. Hence, secularism rejects Allah's rules with no exception and prefers regulations other than Allah's and His Messenger's.

The ignorance about the Islamic truth is still dominating the Muslim's mind. Most secular systems repeat slogans like "no religion in politics and no politics in religion" or "religion is for Allah, and the state is for the people." Such sayings portray their view of Islam as a religion to be practiced in the mosque only, and that it should not be allowed to rule life outside the mosque. Furthermore, they try to deceive people with democratic slogans like "personal freedom" and "people governing people." That means that people come first and no place is made for the ruling of Allah.

To me,secularism is clear Kufr, bcoz secular systems have no legality and authority and should be rejected by Muslims.
but what we can do is to always believe in Allah (SWT) is the sole Creator and Sustainer of the worlds and always improve our ibadah towards Him.... InsyaAllah, there will be the harmonization between Islam n secularism...

Allah SWT Sent His Messengers to Mankind to guide it to the truth and straight path. With the advent of Prophet Muhammad SAAWS, the message of Islam was completed giving a comprehensive insight of the World and how our journey on it should or shouldn't be. Islam does not only seek to make us happy in the Hereafter but also in the ephemeral life. This why Islam provides a set of rules and regulations about how to fully live our life in accordance with Divine Laws to ensure a continuity in the formal way of winning both lives with a peaceful break in the tomb.

Ultimately, any other non Divine ways of life is doomed to failure; so is any concept created by Man towards achieving his desires of how the world and actions of humans would be, especially when dealing with religion.
Secularism is no exception since it seeks towards forming a government based on zero religion and/or religious beliefs. Contrariwise, Islam allows us to do whatever we wish as long it is not in contradiction with its judgements and do not exceed its limitations.

In clearing the Muslim image and engaging in a global Da'wah, should we separate 'ibadah from other professions so that not everything a Muslim does is 'ibadah, but then we will be faced with Secularism which Islamic worldview is not comfortable with.
Or should we continue to tolerate 'Muslim terrorist' which is unfair to Islam and greater majority of Muslims.

Concerning the balance between Ibadah and professions, one should not feel shameful to make Ibadah through his profession. Here it is the business of no one if someone do his job to seek an decent earning and the please of his Lord. Neither is the matter on any one is someone chose a profession or job over an other if this last is not in agreement with the principles of his religion. The thing that may affect laic persons is to live or govern with Islamic judgements and rules. Real Muslims and Muslim states are an impedement to Haram businesses and compagnies for making more profits and enlarging their territories. Also is the case for some citizens in a state that applies the Shari'ah, willing by that seeing the state a laic state so their bad and deliberate actions won't be sanctioned. (...)


Translation:
-Hassan II: "A muslim cannot be secular"-
"I am not a secular state leader; because from the moment we are muslims we can't be secular. In reality, all the leaders of the Muslim world -I do not say Arab- are not secular leaders. If they say they want to be secular leaders, I say that they are no longer muslims; because the Islamic law sticks to our skin whether we want it or not."

Assalamualaikum, im quiet excited that u guys really do well in giving your views. lets take a look in Malaysia: it is defined as an Islamic-secular country by google. so, islamic n secular? it is 2 things that oppose each other, it is like 2 say im a mukmin kufr? How? it doesnt make sense but that is what we can see today. politics is taking away from islamic siasah and in order to put Ïslam in its place it requires the permission from the parliament and the court. Kelantan is a state in Malaysia which wants to enforce Islam but cannot do so as the federal government doesnt allow it to. in this world of globalisation, thanks that there still have úlama like Habib Umar Hafidz, Habib Ali Jufri, Habib Munzir, Sheikh Fahmi Zam Zam, Sheikh Nuruddin, Sheikh Fuad Kamaluddin that teach us Islam and promote the Prophet teaching in their daily lives.

p/s: to whom who are free, their is a talaqqi done this tuesday night after maghrib conducted by Ustaz Muhaddir bin Hj Joll on tasawuf n hadith at musolla engin E0 lvl 2, n also on friday afternoon start at 11.00am till 12.40 conducted by Habib Ali Zainal Abidin al-hamid on fiqh also at the same place.
May Allah bless us all.

Indeed, Islamic Secularism does not make any sense. The reason why this even pops up is because people don't realize that Islam actually covers all aspects of life. It isn't technically a "religion", which is restricted to beliefs and rituals in the way that some others define religion. The Deen encompasses everything. And it does not approve of secularism. And if it's a secular state, then it actually isn't Islamic at all, even if the majority of the people are Muslims.

Also, thank you for the letting us know about the programme for Tuesday night. But I didn't know that Engin E0 had a Musolla...

But I didn't know that Engin E0 had a Musolla...

At least you won't die as ignorant.
PS: Not interested in Suffism, I've seen enough stupidity there where I come from...

2030_17_Ali wrote:

But I didn't know that Engin E0 had a Musolla...

At least you won't die as ignorant.
PS: Not interested in Suffism, I've seen enough stupidity there where I come from...

Wait, wait, where did Sufism come from?

secularism, as our ustaz ABDUL KABIR thought us, is the concept that government should exist separately from religion or religious belief. [memisahkan agama daripada kehidupan]
it reject belief in god, belief in revelation and belief in hereafter. --> copied this from notes.

secularism has become the popular practice of the world's population.
the best example, in politics. (don't want to talk on this political issues)

my naqibah told me, once we focused on the hereafter, indirectly, the wordly matter will folllow. insyaALLAH.


p/s: 2030_17_sajed, yup, there is a musolla at E0 lvl 2.

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Wait, wait, where did Sufism come from?

Wait, wait, where did Judaism come from?

2030_17_amiza wrote:secularism, as our ustaz ABDUL KABIR thought us, is the concept that government should exist separately from religion or religious belief. [memisahkan agama daripada kehidupan]
it reject belief in god, belief in revelation and belief in hereafter. --> copied this from notes.

It doesn't actually REJECT all of that. Like you said in the first line, it only separates religion from the other aspects of life. As in, you can believe in whatever you want, but don't let it interfere with politics or anything else. That's the idea of secularism. Islam, despite being referred to as a "religion", is not restricted to beliefs and rituals and it rejects the idea of secularism. So while other religions can coexist with secularism, Islam definitely cannot.

secularism has become the popular practice of the world's population.
the best example, in politics. (don't want to talk on this political issues)

my naqibah told me, once we focused on the hereafter, indirectly, the wordly matter will folllow. insyaALLAH.

Indeed

p/s: 2030_17_sajed, yup, there is a musolla at E0 lvl 2.

Eh, I couldn't find it, sorry.

2030_17_Ali wrote:

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Wait, wait, where did Sufism come from?

Wait, wait, where did Judaism come from?

I mean, how is Sufism related to that program?

Doesn't matter anymore though, since I missed it anyways.

2030_17_Ali wrote:

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Wait, wait, where did Sufism come from?

Wait, wait, where did Judaism come from?

I mean, how is Sufism related to that program?

Doesn't matter anymore though, since I missed it anyways.

Forget it was a misunderstanding . But when shall we start to chat about the project?

i don wnt to answer ur question...hahahaahah...search by urself...

ASSALAMUALAIKUM...
For Muslim societies, the acceptance of secularism means something totally different as Islam is a comprehensive system of worship (ibadah) and legislation (Shari`ah). The acceptance of secularism means abandonment of Shari`ah, a denial of the divine guidance and a rejection of Allah’s injunctions; It is indeed a false claim that Shariah is not proper to the requirements of the present age. The acceptance of a legislation formulated by humans means a preference of the humans’ limited knowledge and experiences to the divine guidance: "Say! Do you know better than Allah?" (2:140).
For this reason, the call for secularism among Muslims is atheism and a rejection of Islam....

2030_18_ainulzawarah wrote:ASSALAMUALAIKUM...
For Muslim societies, the acceptance of secularism means something totally different as Islam is a comprehensive system of worship (ibadah) and legislation (Shari`ah). The acceptance of secularism means abandonment of Shari`ah, a denial of the divine guidance and a rejection of Allah’s injunctions; It is indeed a false claim that Shariah is not proper to the requirements of the present age. The acceptance of a legislation formulated by humans means a preference of the humans’ limited knowledge and experiences to the divine guidance: "Say! Do you know better than Allah?" (2:140).
For this reason, the call for secularism among Muslims is atheism and a rejection of Islam....

I agree with pretty much everything, except that secularism isn't really a call to atheism. Secularism just doesn't care about what you believe in, regardless of whether you're a monotheist, polytheist, or an atheist. It is, however, a rejection of Islam because Islam isn't just limited to those aspects of the Deen.

It is clear that secularism must be confronted. When we talk about them, we do not want to exaggerate their power and importance. Our religion (Islam) teaches us that we are stronger than they are.

There is no place for secularism in Islam or among the Muslims because Islam is the religion sent down by Allah to replace the previous manifestation of the faith to cover all aspects of life. Each and all matters in detail. Even throughout the history of Islam, it never experienced the troubles that were faced by Europe because of its corrupted faith. Religion that fought against science so fiercely that the church burned some scientists to death for those scientists who went against the religion.

Secularism may be accepted in other religions but not in Islam

assalamualaikum....

Admin wrote:
...Islam categorically condemns terrorizing innocent people, yet a few Muslims, due to one reason or another, have chosen the path of terrorism. They claim to do it li-wajhillah. Partly on this ground, some non-Muslims jump into the conclusion that Islam condones or supports terrorism.

Actually, Islam doesn't condone or support terrorism...
i just found one hadith qudsi that we can refer to...

HADITH 23
On the authority of Abu Dharr Al-Ghafari, of the prophet is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord is that He said:p "O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O my servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to become as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more than a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that blame no one but himself."p related by Muslim.


One of Allah's commands delivered by Prophet pbuh is:
"O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.".
This shows that Allah doesn't make or do something that has no mercy because it's not His attributes..Allah said,

Qaf: verse 29
"The Word changes not before Me, and I do not the least injustice to My Servants."

In short,we are forbidden to commit brutality,either to Allah or to ourselves as well as others although it's for the pleasure of Allah(liwajhillah).

Admin wrote:
In clearing the Muslim image and engaging in a global Da'wah, should we separate 'ibadah from other professions so that not everything a Muslim does is 'ibadah....

in my opinion, we can't separate ibadah from other professions.we can refer back to these verses...

Adh-Dhariyat, verse 56
I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.

Al-An'am, verse 162-163
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds:
No partner hath He: this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who bow to His will.

Admin wrote:...but then we will be faced with Secularism which Islamic worldview is not comfortable with.

just face it, i guess... ^^;
no need to...

Admin wrote:Or should we continue to tolerate 'Muslim terrorist' which is unfair to Islam and greater majority of Muslims.

btw, i also have found a good... blog...? i don't know what should i call it...article perhaps??
anyway, please have a read

THE NEED TO CONFRONT SECULARISM
It is clear that secularism must be confronted. When we talk about them, we do not want to exaggerate their power and importance. Our religion teaches us that we are stronger than they are. Islam is as firm and constant as the mountains. Many waves have crashed upon the rock of Islam only to be repelled. However, this was only achieved by our efforts. We must confront secularism and resist it with every means at our disposal. Two of the most important of these means are as follows:

1. We must expose and clarify what the secularists are doing.
Allah exposed the machinations of the hypocrites and discusses them in many chapters of the Qur’ân. In the chapter of the Qur’ân entitled Sûrah al-Tawbah, Allah discusses many different types of hypocrite. For this reason, the chapter is also called “The Exposition”, since it leaves no hypocrite without exposing him.

We want our scholars, Islamic workers, and students of Islamic knowledge to apply the approach of that chapter of the Qur’ân in exposing the secularists. We need people today who can identify them and expose all of their different tricks and strategies. This is especially important since the secularists are often extremely eloquent in their speech. Allah describes the hypocrites of old in the same way: “When they speak, you listen to their words.” [Sûrah al-Munâfiqûn : 4] Allah says: “When the hypocrites approach you (O Muhammad), they say: ‘We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah.’ Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.” [Sûrah al-Munâfiqûn: 1]

The secularists must be exposed because they are deceiving much of the general public. They are dressing up their words and ideas with Islamic slogans and are selectively quoting from the Qur’ân and Sunnah and the scholarly works of old, and even citing principles of Islamic Law to spread their ideas. For this reason, many Muslims may follow them.

Exposing them must be accomplished without misconduct, agitation, and anger. It must be conducted in an objective, factual manner so that even your opponent has no choice but to concede to the truth of what you say.

2. We must work hard for our religion.
Allah never lets the works of any man or woman go to waste, not in this world and not in the Hereafter. He does not withhold the reward of those who do right. Likewise, Allah does not make good the works of those who spread mischief and corruption. Their works are indeed wasted and their achievements are fleeting. As for the believers, they are assured that their works are preserved, both in this life and in the life to come. Allah says: “Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. If you are suffering, lo! they suffer even as you suffer, and you hope from Allah that for which they cannot hope.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 104]

What we mentioned about the history of Turkey has happened and continues to happen over and over again in many Muslim lands. Sometimes the strategies are the same and sometimes they are different, depending on the circumstances. In any case, the struggle between Islam and secularism goes on throughout the Muslim world and affects its people, just like it did in Turkey.

An Arabic verse reads: “Whoever holds history in his heart has added the lives of others to his own.” We should benefit from the experience of others and realize what the secularists are doing to take over and ruin our societies and make us no more than a small part of the West that reared them.

there's more actually... this one just a small part of it..
u can open this link if u want to read the full article
http://kashifiat.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/islam-and-secularism-by-sheikh-salman-b-fahd-al-oadah/

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh................done!ok.thank you.bye. haha

*have a nice holiday!!!
wasalam....

OMA!!
please say that oppress and terrorize give the same meaning...!! =________=;
*sigh*

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Oh snap, the Admin of this forum is actually still alive???

Indeed, Islam is not comfortable with secularism at all. Even if we were to resort to secularism, it would not help one bit in solving this problem. In fact, it would only make our situation look worse if we completely remove the Ibadah in other aspects of life. As for how to deal with this terrorism issue...

who said its not comfortable at all?

then what about having freedom in taking the choice??? what about rising in the Science? (isnt that why secularism started?)

2030_17_syazwani^ahmad wrote:OMA!!
please say that oppress and terrorize give the same meaning...!! =________=;
*sigh*

They don't mean the same thing, no, but it doesn't matter. Because you can consider terrorism to be a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally extreme case of oppression. Obviously, anything related to oppression definitely includes terrorism.

That was a very helpful and informative post up there. Thank you, brother/sister. Just one small thing though.

2030_17_syazwani^ahmad wrote:Exposing them must be accomplished without misconduct, agitation, and anger. It must be conducted in an objective, factual manner so that even your opponent has no choice but to concede to the truth of what you say.

In reality though, this situation is extremely rare. If they already made up their minds about following a corrupted system, they won't give in to your words. However, it doesn't matter at all because the important thing is whether the spectators accept your point. After all, the whole idea is to expose them to the public so that the general population realize the truth.

there's more actually... this one just a small part of it..
u can open this link if u want to read the full article
http://kashifiat.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/islam-and-secularism-by-sheikh-salman-b-fahd-al-oadah/

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh................done!ok.thank you.bye. haha

*have a nice holiday!!!
wasalam....

Thank you for the link, but I'm sorry to say that my holiday was very boring. I really miss my classes...

2030_17_nabil wrote:

2030_17_Sajed wrote:Oh snap, the Admin of this forum is actually still alive???

Indeed, Islam is not comfortable with secularism at all. Even if we were to resort to secularism, it would not help one bit in solving this problem. In fact, it would only make our situation look worse if we completely remove the Ibadah in other aspects of life. As for how to deal with this terrorism issue...

who said its not comfortable at all?

The Admin, in the opening post, and disagreeing with him is not healthy for your grades

Just think about it. Islam is very comprehensive and encompasses all aspects of life. And it is entirely based on the principle that there is none worthy of worship except Allah. Secularism is to separate religion from other wordly matters. It restricts Ibadah to beliefs and rituals. This is obviously not compatible with Islam. The poster above you even gave some nice Verses on the matter.

2030_17_syazwani^ahmad wrote:
in my opinion, we can't separate ibadah from other professions.we can refer back to these verses...

Adh-Dhariyat, verse 56
I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.

Al-An'am, verse 162-163
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds:
No partner hath He: this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who bow to His will.

then what about having freedom in taking the choice???

FREEDOM OF CHOICE DOES NOT MEAN FREEDOM FROM ACCOUNTABILITY! Would you say Islam is comfortable with idol worshiping because "there is no compulsion in religion" [2:256]? A secularist system cannot be an Islamic system, but everyone is free to pick whichever one they want. This does not mean it is perfectly okay to pick the wrong one.

what about rising in the Science? (isnt that why secularism started?)

That's what they want you to think alright. It's incredibly ironic, actually. If secularism started because of scientific progression, then how did the scientific progression begin anyway? Oh, right, the Europeans started becoming interested in science after the Islamic world already laid down the foundations. And that Islamic ummah started with the Arabs. How did a bunch of illiterate savages that almost completely lack morality somehow become so advanced in science? I wonder what exactly it was that triggered this sudden change...

btw you know those "Dark Ages" that Europe went through? Well, it wasn't dark everywhere during those times. In some places, it was actually incredibly bright.

we can deny but can't avoid.

from the meaning of the secularism itself, from the Webster dictionary : "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

so, we cant separate ibadah from our profession..we can apply the concept of Islam when we are doing something..

for example, if we want to make a building, or shopping mall, we need to consider all the vistor..in Malaysia, theres a lot of people with different religions..so, we need to give the best service and facilities for them.. so, it should have a comfortable musolla which can enable muslims to pray there peacefully, seperate the halal food court especially for muslim..and not forgotten the non-halal food for non-muslim..

so i think theres no reason to separate ibadah in our profession..

Salam.

2030_17_Sajed wrote:

what about rising in the Science? (isnt that why secularism started?)

That's what they want you to think alright. It's incredibly ironic, actually. If secularism started because of scientific progression, then how did the scientific progression begin anyway? Oh, right, the Europeans started becoming interested in science after the Islamic world already laid down the foundations. And that Islamic ummah started with the Arabs. How did a bunch of illiterate savages that almost completely lack morality somehow become so advanced in science? I wonder what exactly it was that triggered this sudden change...

btw you know those "Dark Ages" that Europe went through? Well, it wasn't dark everywhere during those times. In some places, it was actually incredibly bright.

I agree with you. the science begin with Islam. without Islam, maybe all those progression that the Europeans and Americans achieved today cannot happened at all. they got all those solid knowledges from Islamic philosophers and scientist. all they did was experiments and make the revelation as theirs. so, secularism doesn't play any part in the scientific way.

Islam is the way of life! this words have been repeated so many times. it means that Islam can be applied anywhere and everywhere. in your daily life and even in Science!!
So, secularism can never be accepted because Islam can always be accepted anywhere.

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:from the meaning of the secularism itself, from the Webster dictionary : "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

so, we cant separate ibadah from our profession..we can apply the concept of Islam when we are doing something..

for example, if we want to make a building, or shopping mall, we need to consider all the vistor..in Malaysia, theres a lot of people with different religions..so, we need to give the best service and facilities for them.. so, it should have a comfortable musolla which can enable muslims to pray there peacefully, seperate the halal food court especially for muslim..and not forgotten the non-halal food for non-muslim..

so i think theres no reason to separate ibadah in our profession..

We shouldn't serve haram food at all. Period. Even if non-Muslims would be dining, they are not forbidden from eating our halal food in their religion. What we serve must still remain halal and if they want to eat pork or drink alcohol, then they'll just have to find another place. It is wrong to serve food that you KNOW is harmful to humans, even if the victim doesn't believe/care.

2030_17_salsabila wrote:Salam.

2030_17_Sajed wrote:

what about rising in the Science? (isnt that why secularism started?)

That's what they want you to think alright. It's incredibly ironic, actually. If secularism started because of scientific progression, then how did the scientific progression begin anyway? Oh, right, the Europeans started becoming interested in science after the Islamic world already laid down the foundations. And that Islamic ummah started with the Arabs. How did a bunch of illiterate savages that almost completely lack morality somehow become so advanced in science? I wonder what exactly it was that triggered this sudden change...

btw you know those "Dark Ages" that Europe went through? Well, it wasn't dark everywhere during those times. In some places, it was actually incredibly bright.

I agree with you. the science begin with Islam. without Islam, maybe all those progression that the Europeans and Americans achieved today cannot happened at all. they got all those solid knowledges from Islamic philosophers and scientist. all they did was experiments and make the revelation as theirs. so, secularism doesn't play any part in the scientific way.

Islam is the way of life! this words have been repeated so many times. it means that Islam can be applied anywhere and everywhere. in your daily life and even in Science!!
So, secularism can never be accepted because Islam can always be accepted anywhere.

Without Islam, they probably would never have even considered pursuing science. Just looking at their situation makes me feel REALLY sorry for those poor people. And after the Islamic world fell, they began to take the lead on science. Once they started going so far, they became so arrogant with their knowledge that they began to eliminate religion from their lives. And they took it a step further, convincing thousands of ignorant people that science has no need for religion.

2030_17_hazrin_adzha wrote:
from the meaning of the secularism itself, from the Webster dictionary : "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

so, we cant separate ibadah from our profession..we can apply the concept of Islam when we are doing something..

for example, if we want to make a building, or shopping mall, we need to consider all the vistor..in Malaysia, theres a lot of people with different religions..so, we need to give the best service and facilities for them.. so, it should have a comfortable musolla which can enable muslims to pray there peacefully, seperate the halal food court especially for muslim..and not forgotten the non-halal food for non-muslim..

so i think theres no reason to separate ibadah in our profession..

2030_17_sajed wrote:
We shouldn't serve haram food at all. Period. Even if non-Muslims would be dining, they are not forbidden from eating our halal food in their religion. What we serve must still remain halal and if they want to eat pork or drink alcohol, then they'll just have to find another place. It is wrong to serve food that you KNOW is harmful to humans, even if the victim doesn't believe/care.

i agreed with 2030_17_sajed, we shouldn't serve haram food, but what if the non-muslim raise the guestion about consumer's rights?? their rights in the country?? well, i mean, you're talking about halal and non-halal food...
(sorry, my q is kinda 'deviated' from our topics...)